Where's the Cornerstone?

Continuing the discussion from Builder/Cornstone not appearing:

Cornerstone is said to work with any WP theme.

But all I can ever get to is the Pro application which takes over everything and even warns against editing outside of it. I can’t activate a theme and still make use of cornerstone as the plugin has never installed.

What?

I don’t get it.

How can I access Cornerstone without bringing up pro? I also note there’s supposed to 42 elements (and counting) but I only count 32 in the interface.

Hello James,

Thanks for writing in!

Please be advised that Cornerstone is only available when you are using X theme. If you also purchased a separate Cornerstone license, you should be able to use Cornerstone as a standalone plugin.

Since you are using Pro theme, Cornerstone has been integrated in the Pro theme already. The Pro Editor is actually the Cornerstone plugin which has been integrated in Pro theme. Any Cornerstone extension plugin should also work with Pro Editor.

Hope this helps.

This is not acceptable. I paid extra for the Pro theme and was told it was included. I was not made to understand it would be limited. I’m paying more for less. That needs to be made right.

Hey James,

As Ruenel said, Cornerstone IS integrated with Pro. I’d just like to add that it is not called Cornerstone in this case but called the Content Builder. You can’t use the Content Builder outside of Pro. Nowhere in our Pro Sales Page that says that. The X sales page does not apply to you and even if you bought X, you still can’t use Cornerstone for other themes as it’s bundled only to X.

If you wish to use Cornerstone for a different theme, you need to purchase a standalone Cornerstone license at https://codecanyon.net/item/cornerstone-the-wordpress-page-builder/15518868

Thank you for understanding.

I’m fine with purchasing the cornerstone but I don’t want to pay you $80 for something that’s not going to be used. It’s entirely plausible a misunderstanding has been caused by the promotion of your products. Here are some images grabbed from the web

Included is not the same as locked to the theme. Furthermore in the video presentation for pro one sees this:

That’s the cornerstone logo showing - not the Pro logo. That’s further reason to believe the CS app is included with the purchase to the themes both of which cost more. The implication is one’s getting a great theme along with a great plugin.

Perhaps its never said but it’s certainly implied and the responsibility for clarity is with the marketing. I don’t see what you’ve to gain by insisting I pay you for something I can’t make use of and want even more for the aspect I could. What kind of customer attitude is that?

Hello James,

Thanks for updating us in!

Just want to make it clear that when you purchased X theme, once it is installed and activated Cornerstone will also be automatically installed and activated. If you validated the X theme, Cornerstone automatically gets validated too.

When you purchased Pro theme, there is no Cornerstone plugin installed because the Pro theme’s header and footer builder runs with Cornerstone which been integrated into the Pro theme.

Now, if you use Cornerstone as a standalone plugin with other Wordpress theme (not X theme), you will need to purchase a separate license because Cornerstone will ask you to validate it. Even if you have an X theme license, it will not be able to validate Cornerstone. You will have to get a separate Cornerstone license and only then you can validate it.

Hope this helps.

Rue, you’ve just repeated what Christian stated. It’s pointless to make things clear after the sale. I’ve made a reasonable request to essentially downgrade so I can make better use of the builder. Instead of working with me, you’re just stating policy

Hi James,

For the avoidance of doubt, what exactly do you want to end up with? Are you wanting to use Cornerstone as a standalone plugin on another theme, and no longer have a license for either Pro or X? Or are you looking to have the ability to use Cornerstone on other themes whilst retaining the license for Pro (or X)?

I’d just like to be explicitly clear about your intentions before responding further.

Thanks,
Matt

Hello Matt and thanks for your reply.

The only reason I went so far as to purchase the pro level was to be able to create a verticle header on the right side of the browser window on a desktop and tablet. The rest of the theme and interface has been a hassle to use as the scrolling is unreliable - there are several posts regarding this - and the problems with simple design tasks like the hamburger styling that’s apparently impossible on my end using Safari or Chrome - also shown in a series of communications with Rue. Trying to build content with the inspector needing to be contantly dealt with i.e having to carefully click on the 2 pixel scroll bar and drag it up and down is not a pleasant obstacle to be added to the sundry other details that must be mastered.

At that point I decided to dispense with the Pro theme and see what could be done with other templates which were suitable except for the lack of header options.

So to be clear; I’d like to be able to use the functionality of the cornerstonde application to get the header I want and make use of less complicated themes for the content.

Hi James,

Thank you for stating the reasoning. Now let me explain the false assumption that you have regarding the vertical header feature.

The vertical header feature that you are talking about is a part of the Pro theme and not the Cornerstone page builder. So even by purchasing the standalone version of the Cornerstone which can be used with other themes, you can not build the header.

The feature that you are talking about is part of the Header Builder which is available in Pro theme that you already have. It seems repetitive but I see that I need to explain in details about the ecosystem:

Pro Theme Contains:

  • The Theme itself: which contains the Theme Options and all the stylings and stuff.
  • Header Builder: A specific builder to be able to create different headers.
  • Footer Builder: A specific builder to be able to create different footers.
  • Content Builder: The main Page Builder of the theme that you can create the pages with.

Now, the vertical header feature can be achieved by Header Builder which is part of the Pro package. There is no standalone version of the Header Builder.

At the moment forget about Cornerstone, as you did not purchase the Standalone version or the X theme which has the Cornerstone as a bundled plugin. Cornerstone is used as a Page Builder to create pages and not the header and footers.

Thank you.

Thanks for your generous decision to explain things and disabuse me of my false assumptions.

So … if one wants to build pages/content they can buy the Cornerstone app which will be compatible with other themes.

If one wants to build headers as well, then they must pay extra and can only use the application with such themes as offered by Themeco.

That’s what’s meant by the ‘Pro’ designation.

Then there’s the X option which gives one the page builder and a nice theme but no header builder.

It seems the endeavor of creating a header builder requires it be perfectly compatible with the page builder and hence the limitation to Themco themes.

But while that, if true, would be easy enough to explain you deign to educate a customer on how they’re wrong. You’ve not bothered with any reference to evidence provided for the confusion and furthermore have made no offer to rectify things and simply reverse the exchange.

You seem more focused on being ‘right’ than being of service. Of course you’ve many satisfied customers (presumably) but consider the long term effect on your business goals with such an attitude.

Hi James,

I apologise if that’s how my colleagues message came across. Knowing the man personally, I can assure you that there was no disrespect intended, nor was there any intention to get into a battle about being ‘right.’ That said, it’s easy for me to say that with knowledge of the person, and I can appreciate how you could have taken it the way that you did, and for that reason, I do sincerely apologise.

Now, to address the matter at hand, what Christopher was really trying to get across is just an understanding of how the different components make up the feature set of our products, because it became clear from your previous reply that what you were hoping to achieve (use our software to create a header on another theme) would not be possible.

I can honestly say that I haven’t come across a situation where we’ve encountered this kind of misunderstanding from the way we market our products, so it would be disingenuous of me to suggest that we’re going to change that right now, but it’s certainly something that we’ll be mindful of in case we do get a number of other people that report similar concerns.

So let’s instead focus on how best to move forward. Ultimately, I think it rests on what you feel is the biggest challenge you’re facing right now. Is it the header? If so, then perhaps you’d be willing to accept the learning curve that comes with Pro, and lean into the support that we can offer, to help you achieve your desired look. If you’re less concerned about the design of the header, then it’s more a question of which theme and builder combination will enable you to get the look you want, in the best way for you. I will say that with X or Pro, you do have a level of granular control that you’ll struggle to get elsewhere, but of course, the trade-off is that with more granular control, there’s more to learn.

Please give this a little thought and let me know how you’d like to move forward. For our part, we would certainly love to continue working with you to help you achieve a look and feel that you’re proud of. And just to manage your expectations, I’m going to instruct the team to leave this for me to handle personally, so depending on the time you’re able to reply, it may take a few hours for me to respond.

I hope you’ll find this constructive and I’ll look forward to hearing your thoughts later.

Matt

Hello Mat.

I wanted to acknowledge your reply and thank you for it.

I’m going to take a few before I write back. I do this because despite my pique with some interface annoyances, I’m inclined to contribute towards the positive. It’s a habit I try to foster that makes most days worthwhile. This task fo building a site has been the most unsatisfying and discouraging six months I can recall. I didn’t think what I was after was so flipping difficult.

I’ll write soon

Have a great weekend!

Hi James,

No problem, I understand the frustration. If I could encourage you though, I really am very serious when I say that you can lean into our support team to get you through this. There’s no such thing as a silly question. And if this really has been a very discouraging period for you, then we’d love to share in the satisfaction when you do finally achieve your goal.

Anyway, you have a great weekend as well, and I’ll look forward to catching up with you when you’re ready.

As mentioned I’ve been struggling with this endeavor since March.

Coming from a graphics and photography (visual design) background I keep hoping to find an interface that will facilitate those skills. I naturally began with what was offered free like what came with hosting - Weebly for instance.

Those were rudimentary and too limited.

I next looked into portfolio/website services - Adobe Portfolio, WIX, SquareSpace, Cargo, IMCreator, Bookmark, Portfolio Box, Jimdo and Visual Composer. They were also structurally constraining and despite claims to the contrary resulted in sites looking pretty much like every other.

The site itself is as important to distinguishing the owner as the content.

So … I’ll have to do it myself. (Oh God)

First it was Elementor because it insists on itself when one installs on the hosting site. Then I upgraded to Elementor Pro. Then it was on to Themify, Divi, Beaver Builder, Visual Builder and finally OceanWP.

This is what I’m after: A vertical header element on the right side of the browser screen that will contain the main navigation, search function and a contact link. Perhaps a headline or logo if I wanted to go wild.

That’s it!

That’s the bit apparently is so difficult or perhaps so disdained that none of the above aside from OceanWP could facilitate it. But even then the option is limited to a few presets. Anything further requires CSS and the expertise of tech support.

As to my misunderstanding of your applications and components sets; I will own it. But I’d point out that after the last 4 months of learning and researching and learning so many different builders coupled with the incoherent assemblage and interface of WP itself it’s easy to have been a bit confused.

I’ve come to thoroughly despise the whole niggling necessity of the website building game.

It’s a joyless chore for one that’s visually oriented. One would think with these ‘you don’t need to code’ builder apps one might actually be able to drag and drop an element in the workspace. Nonsense!

(You thought you’d place that image up there …. no …. its down here off screen. Why? Welcome to another adventure - a mystery for you …. you’re welcome!)

The entire interface for WP is a ridiculous assemblage of misleading menus, incoherent categories, confusing terms and sloppy language. I’m not kidding.

One turns to builders to be relieved of that underlying mess and actually get something done. I suppose creating such a thing is a very complicated and time intensive project. It likely takes years and thousands of hours. However, the party that finally relieves the customer of that underlying confusion (the OS if you will) with a well designed UX and UI will be have very profitable and highly esteemed product.

There are probably hundreds of page builders for WP.
Why does anyone choose one over another?

  • Price
  • Ease of use / Intuitiveness
  • Customization potential
  • Third party compatibility

Regarding Themeco’s Pro interface:

The inspector pallets are not reliably scrollable when in a vertical condition.

The navigation of the same is awkward and confusing with a ribbon atop the options that’s not clearly indicating where the changes are to be made as in for instance the toggle and graphic areas in the menu panels.

The many details that are customizable are not always desired - certainly not in every stage of design and the necessity of scrolling past them and further making certain one’s still in the appropriate panel is an unwanted waste of time.

The option of simplifying the inspector menu turns off the flex box setting interface.

It’s not necessarily a matter of “advanced” vs simple for desired settings. It’s a matter of professional proficiency.

Styling the hamburger icon has been an ongoing failure as despite changes made by the tech I continue to get a mess on my end. This takes place in Chrome as well as Safari.

When checking the layout in various formats the option to do so disappears once anything is called up for editing. This necessitates repeating a couple extra clicks to get back to the interface feature.

Every extra click is wasted time. Adding them up over several hours of work they account for a significant waste.

The application has an irritating feature which obliges one to confirm anytime an inadvertent click is made to leave a page even when no changes have been made!

Wasted time is the most unprofessional trait of all. (perhaps clicking through an interface is as well but all the same the design/interface responsibility is on the designer)

Your app is called PRO!

Now of course, I’m not a pro. I don’t aspire to be a professional website designer. I just want to put up my works and notes in a professional and singular style for the pursuit of design conversations and portfolio samples.

But again, despite all the granular control offered I cannot manage the line thickness on a hamburger Icon!

I must click and drag the scroll bar - have you bothered to read any of the posts I’ve made the last month?

I can’t go forward with a defective interface. I can’t commit any more of my limited time to an application that may ultimately have be abandoned.

The ideal is a site that can grow to accommodate new works with a means of adding such in a simple drag and drop manner. I detest the ongoing ‘exceptions’ that require some tech support to accomplish. That’s not a useful application.

I appreciate the level of control in the offing and I’m well aware of graphics construction. The problem is the interface. If that’s not to be remedied, any future use will be an unwelcome - time sucking chore.

Hi James,

Thank you for providing your feedback on the user interface of our page builder and sharing with us your journey of the web design.

I’d be dishonest if I promise that there will be significant changes in the interface as this is the result of years of work and customer feedback. We have a huge customer base that is comfortable with the interface and a drastic change in how it is represented will be a huge blow to our current customers.

Having said that, it doesn’t mean we do not look for constructive criticism and feedback to be able to improve our product. I will write down the points that you made and discuss with the team. There is no guarantee of changes in the interface but rest assured that our team will be aware of the points that you mentioned.

There are some usage related points you shared which I already addressed, but you also pointed some problems regarding the hamburger menu which is something that I think our support staff can help you with getting the hang of it. In such cases, I suggest that you open up separate threads and give us the exact case scenario and screenshots, rest assured our support team will do their best to help.

Thank you.

Are you referring to the scrolling function? If so, it may have been addressed but it’s not been remedied. The Hamburger Icon doesn’t configure on my end with the exact settings made by Rue on yours.

https://cl.ly/5621a4a12ecf/Screen%2520Recording%25202019-09-01%2520at%252010.22%2520AM.mov

I don’t see anything I’ve mentioned as anything close to drastic. What aspect of anything suggested strikes you as ‘drastic’?

Hi James,

I checked the video and indeed this is not what I experience on my installation. I think there are two points that needs to be considered:

  • Please make sure to hit ctrl+0 (Windows) or cmd+0 (Mac) to make sure you are not zoomed in.
  • Please check the case with the incognito mode of the Chrome browser, I think one of your browser extensions is conflicting with the builder.

To make sure that the vertical scrolling works and the hamburger menu point I suggest that you open up a new thread and link to this one, we will dedicate that thread the Hamburger menu and scrolling issue and follow up. On that thread I’d appreciate if you provide us with the URL/User/Pass of the website using the Secure Note.

Thank you.

Thank you for expressing your opinion. Let’s not engage in the choice of the words. We completely understand what you meant by your suggestions about the UI of the builder. Besides the scrolling case which is a problem that needs to be addressed for your installation, the other suggestions are for the improvements and we will certainly inform our team about your suggestions.

Thank you.